(Jake Goza, Matthew Pyles, Nate Tilton, Michele Kelley, Chloe Madigan)
The Philosoraptors had a fun time discussing Descartes and dreams today. We began by questioning whether you can learn any new information in a dream. For instance, I said that I have had dreams where I am speaking fluent Spanish. I have only ever had one, eleven-week Spanish class in my life and definitely don't know enough of the language to have a full-on conversation. So, was I actually speaking/thinking in Spanish in my dream or was that simply how I perceived it? Matthew pointed out that it is possible to "learn" something new in a dream but when you wake up you loose all the knowledge you gained while sleeping. This idea begged the question, "Is that true learning?"
We also discussed the idea that we are all dreaming and what we perceive as being reality is nothing more than a dream or an illusion. It was brought up that we could possibly all just be brains floating around in jars in the year 3000, all of us being controlled by some "mad scientist" (as it were) who was feeding into our brains what should be occurring in our dream-state. To the majority of people, this sounds incredibly far-fetched and - as Dr. Oliver pointed out - it's not a very pragmatic philosophy. Descartes' philosophy - something of a cross between the skeptics and Anselm - is similar and equally impractical. He believed that we should not trust anything if we could find it within ourselves to doubt that thing, even reality.
Additionally, we talked about Descartes' philosophy of dualism. Are the mind and body separate entities that are intertwined? Michele disagreed, saying she believes our body and mind are as one but we have a separate soul. This soul is where we get our personalities and character traits.
The best way to sum up our discussion would be to quote Jake, who said, "We need to be open-minded about pragmatic aspects of our lives but not go so far as to question our own existence."
DQ: If Descartes (whose life spanned from 1596 to 1650) were to suddenly end up here in the 21st century, how do you think his philosophy would be altered by our technological advancements?
FQ: Whose philosophy did Descartes borrow to justify the existence of God?
A: Anselm
Nice, Succinct summary, Chloe.
ReplyDeleteWhat we seemed to be focused on has a name: epiphenomenalism.
"Epiphenomenalism is the idea that consciousness is simply an effect of neural events in your brain. If you can see thoughts go on in the brain, and see how they cause neural activity correlated with other thoughts, then (the reasoning goes) all thought must go on in the brain."
This is from a really great, succinct article written on the relationship between the Brain and the Mind, that points out the different theories and the various potential flaws in each one. It's definitely worth a read if anyone is interested in learning more on the subject.
http://www.bigissueground.com/philosophy/ash-mindandbrain.shtml
DQ: Can science ever explain consciousness, or is this the role of philosophy alone?
FQ: What are the differences between Hobbs and Machiavelli?
Good summary Chlo! I like your point Matt and I found the article interesting. It seemed to me that epiphenomenalism, showed in what WAY we reason stuff, but not really WHY we reasoned it in that way. Perhaps the brain and the mind have the square-rectangle relationship. In that the brain has all the qualities of the mind, but the mind has specific qualities beyond that. Hmm, it is all just fascinating really, especially with the technology at our fingertips in the 21st century.
ReplyDeleteTo the soul (and beyond). I think of the soul like this. Whenever I play or sing a piece of music, I am using my mind. I am thinking intonation, rhythm, pulse, technique, stylistic approach, and the list goes on and on. I am using my body to move the air, watch the conductor, use the correct fingering, listening across the room, and on and on.
However when you listen to a piece, sometimes it reaches your soul. It feeds your soul. It gives you goosebumps and knocks the breath out of you with its beauty. It is the feeling, that is not analyzing the piece in your mind or feeling the room around you, not in your mind nor your heart but soul.
“When you live on your own for a long time, however, your personality changes because you go so much into yourself you lose the ability to be social, to understand what is and isn't normal behavior. There is an entire world inside yourself, and if you let yourself, you can get so deep inside it you will forget the way to the surface. Other people keep our souls alive, just like food and water does with our body.”
― Donald Miller, Blue Like Jazz
DQ: What level of the human consciousness do you think true philosophy happens?
FQ: How does Descartes differ from the mainline skeptics that we have discussed before?
http://listverse.com/2007/11/14/top-10-amazing-facts-about-dreams/
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily entirely relevant, but these are kind of cool facts!
First, Chloe made me sound smarter than I actually was at the discussion! (But thank you for including me in your summary girl!)
ReplyDeleteSecond, I agree completely with Michelle. Some things can be explained by chemical reactions and synapses in the brain, but some things can't. Maybe Michelle and I agree because music is an extremely intimate art that directly stimulates the soul (through beauty, intensity, or emotions), but I think almost everyone can think of a time they experienced something so beautiful or awe-inspiring that they couldn't explain their reaction (I cried the first time I saw Les Mis). So I believe the reasoning mind is one with the body, but there are some things that humans experience that goes beyond that simple context (soul?).
Humans are very complex creatures. It's amazing to think of all the things we can do. Look around you at the world: no other animal or plant comes close to comparing to our ability to reason, think, emote, love, and experience. Sentient thought is a strange thing. Thought this link was interesting, it shows the closest nature can create to us (obviously besides humans).
http://www.globalanimal.org/2011/02/22/dolphins-smarter-than-your-three-year-old/30854/
P.S. Dolphins have self-recognition. They can recognize when they're looking at themselves when a mirror is placed in front of them.
Liked the summary Chloe, and the graphic :).
ReplyDeleteI rarely remember my dreams, which somewhat limited my input in this discussion. I think an interesting connection that we didn't discuss is how physical dreams, the kind we have in our sleep, are linked to "dreams" that we consciously hold onto while we're awake. You know, the kind of dreams like becoming the US President. Are the two linked? At their core, they're both fantasies, but does that make them any less useful or enlightening?
Another comment I forgot to add to this dialogue was how in many parts of the world dreams hold a lot more significance than we give them. Some places I've been, people will move homes, marry someone, etc on the basis of a dream. It would be interesting to link this the brain/mind science you posted about Matthew, whether dreams are linked to us in more significant ways than we perhaps they seem on the surface.
FQ: How did Locke believe moral responsibility connected to memory?
DQ: How do you define human identity?
Link: This may be somewhat of a controversial link, but a New York Times article about brain activity in unborn children. Though abortion is a different subject altogether, I thought this article was an interesting link between this discussion about the mind and our next discussion about personhood.
Ah, forgot the link: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/can-neuroscience-challenge-roe-v-wade/
DeleteI enjoyed floating in y’alls group while I was munching on my clemintines!
ReplyDeleteI wanted to reiterate something I brought up in our conversation today. Descartes’ ideology that we should doubt anything that gives us a shred of doubt, and vocalizing many of his crazy thoughts (in my opinion) like what if this is all a dream? If everyone went around doubting a=every aspect of life where would we be? That is where I think religion comes in. Religion is what gives answers to crazy, mind boggling questions, and gives people a way to live a life with out doubting everything you encounter.
Oh and I like the pic in the post Chloe (:
My two cents
Yusra Mohammed
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ReplyDelete