Group Members : Yusra M., Erin P., Larissa W., Keaton D., and Evan L.
Summary provided by: Evan Lester
In today's discussion, we mostly talked about discrimination with a hint of credibility. We all agreed that we should not judge a person's thoughts or ideas based upon the idea of men, women, religion, etc. However, we discussed this is hard for us to do because we have been raised up in a society that still sometimes does this. I also brought up the idea that we might have grown into discrimination ever since we founded America. Our ancestors discriminated against people that were not of the same gender, race, religion, social rank, and etc. Therefore, several of the group members said that it would be harder for us to break loose from that, but it takes time to at least try to change this.
Also, we discussed how we may over compensate when we try to not discriminate. Michele (a floater from another group) said that over compensating might actually reverse what we were trying to stop doing or fix. Keaton Davis and Larissa Wolf talked about affirmative action and how that is also bad in some ways. (I will let them comment more about this since this was a great discussion they had.)Also, Keaton and Michele talked about how it is hard to just erase all of your thoughts about different people, but you can always start trying to fix some of them.
Then, we discussed a different idea, and that idea was should we start censoring books just because it has discrimination in it (e.g. - Huckleberry Finn). We agreed that we shouldn't. I made a comment about how we should keep it because - 1. that was what the author intended to portray in his or her book and we should not change it because we do not like it and 2. discrimination is a part of the history of the world (or at least our nation) and it helps us learn from it and reminds us that we do not need to do that again.
Next, we discussed how other people's ideas are accepted by someone else who said the same thing instead of the original owner of that idea. We talked about how it might be how we have always learned or other factors. However, Erin Paul made a good point that we should listen to other's opinions and give them a chance. When we discriminate someone, we are limiting our knowledge by denying a knowledgeable source.
DQ: Do you think it is important to have different cultures (or diversity) in the places you work, go to school, or etc.? What are the advantages? Are there really any disadvantages?
FQ: Q: According to Anne Phillips, what two liberal principles does multiculturalism derive from?
A: Freedom and equality
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AtRk4tx13k
I really hope everyone watches this video. It is on prejudice and discrimination. It provides examples of people who have been discriminated, but have triumphed over it. It really is a great video to watch! Only about 4.5 minutes. (It honestly gave me chills!) (Besides it play music from Coldplay and Jason Mraz!) Enjoy! Please let me know what you think if you watch this!
Nice summary Evan, I appreciate getting everyone's perspective in it.
ReplyDeleteI think sometimes we try so hard for equality that we on occasion tip the scale in reverse. I was super duper duper irritated with this fact when I was applying to schools and scholarships a year ago. So in my few rants, I dubbed it reverse discrimination.
As a result of my frame of reference I do have objective tendencies to evaluate people based on generalities. Everyone does, and like Keaton and I conjectured, we cannot just castoff these rose tinted glasses for a new pair. Life just doesn't work that way. I think to change this perspective, day to day, we have to RECOGNIZE these tendencies in ourselves and then mentally change them one by one. I think we have to NOT say, oh its an exception to the rule. We have to correct ourselves. They are an individual, there is no rule for them to be an exception to.
It is like why JK Rowling used her initials instead of her name. She didn't want to be discounted by male readers, just because she was a female.
This topic was an important one. It also pertained to and was a good follow up to the conversation we had earlier in the morning. I think the cartoon with the M&M’s perfectly demonstrated both that and today’s topic. Discrimination, bias, and prefjudice are all almost synonymous to me. And the importance to break away from these is essential to live in a more fair and equal society. However, this is more easily said than done in my opinion. When you think of a person that is Hispanic or African American or Muslim or Jewish or homeless you have pre-conceived notions about this stranger you know nothing about. We need to try hard to stop categorizing people into boxes.
ReplyDeleteFQ: What was the example Fricker gave about women being discriminated against?
Answer: A woman being overlooked when looking for the latest football scores.
DQ: Where do you draw the line between innocent, unintentional discrimination and harmful discrimination? (Like with the football situation)
My 2 cents
Yusra Mohammed
H01
I do believe that affirmative action somewhat fosters discrimination. While it may help minorities get a position, it does not mean that the person is most qualified for the job. It seems to be sort of a step backwards. People aren't getting jobs or what have you based on qualifications. Is that not discrimination by saying they aren't capable of getting a job based on abilities? However, it is necessary in some cases because sometimes people who are most qualified end up being discriminated against because of race, gender, etc. It's a double edged sword.
ReplyDeleteI agree discrimination is wrong. Judging someone based on religion, race, or gender is not okay. A lot of it stems from history and hopefully given enough time and effort, people will stop discriminating.
In regards to stereotypes, I feel like some of the boxes we put people in come from somewhere. In general, women don't know a lot about sports. Men don't know how to knit. These stereotypes come from somewhere: statistics or societal norms. We all make assumptions and have preconceived notions. It doesn't mean it isn't wrong (because it is), but it doesn't mean it's bad either. In some situations it makes sense. If I'm standing outside in the dark by myself and someone comes up to talk to me. Would I think serial killer? Yes. Is that bad? No. How do you choose your friends? "That person held the door open. She must be nice." (DQ) Although this isn't typical discrimination or stereotyping, how is it any different?
You're judging someone (before you know them).
Unfortunately, people can't be unbiased. That's not how people think. We make assumptions. We all have opinions and view things differently. It's practically impossible to not be judgmental.
I think the most important thing to remember is that each person is responsible for their own actions and no one else's. That's what the difference is: when you judge someone based on their own person, rather than generalizing them as part of a certain group. That’s where I think the line is.
FQ: Anne Phillips believes we should get rid of what word?
A: Culture
Good summary, Evan! I hate discrimination and sadly I think it is something that society may never get rid of. We all agreed that those preconceived notions we have, from tradition or experience, are extremely hard to break. I hate that the racist/sexist ideas have been passed down to our generation, but it is impossible to force thoughts you are so used to hearing or thinking to not come into your mind. So yes, I think that those types of thoughts and judgements are inevitable. However, I believe it is our choice whether we act on that or not. I never believe it is okay to make a comment, even a joke, discriminating against a certain person or group of people. It honestly disgusts me. And I still see it a lot today. Another thing we can control is we can listen to other people, no matter who they are. One of Fricker's main points was that when we discriminate we are limiting ourselves of the knowledge that person is able to share. Even if our immediate thought is, "Oh she doesn't know anything about so and so because she is a girl.." we can still open ourselves up enough to take the time to listen. And it may take awhile to get past the discrimination and figure out that what she said was right or important, but it's worth it. By discriminating and choosing not to listen, we are cheating ourselves and the other person and may be missing out on knowledge or a friendship.
ReplyDeleteDQ: Phillips talked about protecting children and letting adults decide for themselves. However, she thought the distinction between the two was iffy. When do you believe someone becomes old enough to decide for themselves and outside sources should stay out of it?
FQ: ______________ believe that members of minority groups should have the right to lead their lives as they see fit.
Multiculturalists
Concerning your DQ:
DeleteI guess a person has reached adulthood when they can decide for themselves whether Coke or Dr. Pepper is superior. Or maybe, as a cop out, we should take it on a case by case basis. But then, who is the judge of "adulthood"? To whom do we go to ask "Is this thirteen-year-old girl able to make decisions for herself, thereby forcing her parents to relinquish their right to guide her life?" Situations can get so sticky that it is hard to find the correct solution.
I lean on the unchanging Word of God, which points to the Truth. The inerrant scriptures simply command us to love God and to love others. Do not mistake this for allowing people to continue to do evil because we don't want to hurt their feelings by telling them they are doing wrong (there is such a thing as right and wrong, and aren't we supposed to stop people from doing wrong?). Showing love is not always fluffy bunnies and sunshine. It is sometimes very difficult and tough. A mother sending her son away for a year in rehab is not showing a lack of love, but is displaying a true, deep love. She loves him too much to see him waste his life. While he endures great discomfort and even pain during his healing process, in the end he is a new man, all because of the love that was shown to him.
I agree with you. (And just to let you know, Dr. Pepper always wins). A lot of people in our day and age now seem to think that love means "you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone," or some other deluded version of tolerance, or only doing things that a person likes, when really it means doing the best for a person whether they see or want it or not. Leaving someone to their own devices usually only makes it worse, and most of the time all they need is someone to step in and show they care in order to start the long road to recovery. (Proverbs 13:24 "He that spares his rod hates his son: but he that loves him chastens him early." and Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if you beat him with a rod, he shall not die.") People are either so afraid to hurt others, even if it helps in the long run, or so focused on their own lives that they miss the opportunities to help out others that can have drastic effects in their lives.
DeleteMason Riley
My man! Dr. Pepper is where it's at. Yes, I believe political correctness is debilitating to our society. If we grow a backbone and stop people from harming themselves and others, we will be much better off. It goes even further than preventing harm to people, however, but that's where things get fuzzy in secular society, where manmade laws are subject to change (the Nazis' evil acts against minorities were perfectly legal because Hitler just changed the laws), and are basically useless in the grand scheme of things. "Who should make the laws?" everyone asks. The true, unchanging laws are right in front of them; they just choose to reject them.
DeleteI agree with Erin that we will never get rid of discrimination, but we should always make a conscious effort to eradicate it from our lives. I'm gonna get nerdy on you, but in my earth science class, we learned that you should not try to identify a mineral by its color alone, but a combination of the many characteristics that make it up. This "color" can be someone's race, accent, age, and any other easily recognizable attribute. We cannot make an accurate judgment of someone based on the "color" we see at first glance. How does one make heads or tails of a particular person, you ask? You get to know them: you study them (not creepily), you converse with them, and most importantly, you spend time with them. This is something people are not willing to sacrifice: their time. When we just take a moment and disable our quick-acting judgments, we get to see what type of mineral this person is. Minerals are the building blocks of rocks, which form the foundation we walk on. This is the same with our fellow human beings! We each contribute to the whole of humanity. We provide each other with much-needed support. And we each have cool, unique colors to share and admire.
ReplyDeleteDQ: Are you still "judging" someone if, after you get to know them, you decide you don't want to hang out with them?
FQ: As opposed to multiculturalism, Phillips believes ________________ is "inequitable ... oppressive ... [and] coercive."
FA: Monoculturalism (Microsoft Word doesn't think this is actually a word... Did Phillips make this word up? Should we even trust any of her ideas because of this?)
I found a wonderful video that really captures the essence of our war on discrimination. PLEASE watch it. The man who made this video really knows what he's talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APyr48GACzc