Today, my group began by discussing Thomas Hobbes. If you did the required reading, you may have noticed that he was not very fond of humans... at all. He stated, "We are driven by fear of death and the hope of personal gain." This may be true for some people, but not for all of us. He thought that all humans were bad and have no soul because we do bad things. The definition of soul was brought up. Maybe a "soul" to one person may be a certain "spirit" for someone else. No matter the difference, do we have one if we are bad people? Or do we only have one if we are considered good? There is a little food for thought.
One topic that was heavily discussed in our group was being selfish. Logan got to become an honarary member of Applez 2 Applez today. He brought up the idea of selfless acts. He thinks that there are no such things as selfless acts because we are always gaining something from it. Even if that something is simply a good feeling. We may have selfless intentions, but the actual act itself is not completely selfless, no matter what it may be. This brought up an interesting question. Why are we always striving to help others? What is so bad about helping ourselves? The word selfish has been given a very bad connotation in todays society. In reality, we are all selfish to some extent. This brings us to the idea of positive versus negative selfishness. Why must being selfish always be considered negative? Sometimes it is nice to have some time to yourself to enjoy the world around you. This means that all of us can be selfish to an extent. As long as it bringss no harm to others.
D.Q: What acts do you consider to be negative selfishness?
F.Q: Who said, "There is no such thing as the soul: we are simply bodies, which are ultimately complex machines." Answer: Thomas Hobbes
DISCLAIMER: LOGAN WHILES IS A POSITIVELY SELFISH PERSON. WHOM WE ALL LOVE.
One of my all-time favorite musicals, Avenue Q, had a song precisely about this.
ReplyDeleteYou should definitely listen to it--it's funny!
http://youtu.be/9uOENpIUVos
Fun fact! The cartoon strip "Calvin and Hobbes" (my all time favorite ever) is about a 6 year-old boy (Calvin) and his pet tiger (Hobbes). Bill Waterson, the creator of the strip, named his characters after John Calvin, who developed the concept of Calvinism (a belief which emphasizes the sovereignty of God in all things and predestination) and Thomas Hobbes! I thought that was neat!
ReplyDeleteHere's a kind of fun little tidbit that intertwines the cartoon characters and their namesakes!
http://evangelicalarminians.org/files/Calvin%20and%20Hobbes%20on%20Predestination.jpg
Hey now Chloe. I have already quoted Calvinism on the blog! Yay for APUSH!
ReplyDeleteAnyways, Kailey brought up the idea that maybe the only none selfish act of kindness there is, is praying for that person, event, etc. I think we all agreed that most acts of kindness has its rewards. Like those ASPCA or whatever commercials, where if you donate, you get something in return. Like an awful t-shirt or drawstring bag. Being a FRIENDS fanatic, I brought up the episode where Phoebe tries to do a completely selfless act "The One Where Phoebe hates PBS". She finds it impossible. (She even let a bee sting her-but the bee died, as Joey pointed out). Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzQSEoNdGvk
Once an APUSH student, always an APUSH student!
DeleteFrom Wikipedia:
ReplyDelete"Much debate exists as to whether "true" altruism is possible. The theory of psychological egoism suggests that no act of sharing, helping or sacrificing can be described as truly altruistic, as the actor may receive an intrinsic reward in the form of personal gratification. The validity of this argument depends on whether intrinsic rewards qualify as "benefits."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism
So, yes, if "good feelings" count as a reward for good deeds done, then there truly are no selfless acts. But if nobody knows who has done the kindness to them and no manifested award arises, then I believe the act was selfless. The negative connotation in selfishness comes from the "no regard for others" part. Living life with no regard for others is a lot different than self preservation.
Also, from Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I do not know the difference between the soul and the spirit Biblically, but perhaps it is the difference between the immortal and mortal parts of our mind, if any such division exists.
FQ: Who believed in a Leviathan type government?
Thomas Hobbes
DQ: What is better, a powerful central government or a system ruled solely by the masses?
Mason Riley H1
I don't know, I think there are some selfless acts that don't even give you a good feeling. I found a $20 bill in Wal-Mart and instead of keeping it, gave it to a charity for a local church outside the store on impulse. I didn't feel good about it, I just believed I didn't deserve it, and the church people looked like they needed it more than I did. I'm sure stuff like this happens, so I think that there are selfless acts. I think often they happen when people do things on impulse because they don't have time to think about whether or not they'll regret it or get the "fuzzy feeling" on the inside due to their actions. A good way to eliminate a lot of selfishness from your life is to realize how unimportant we all are as individuals: or as Iris Murdoch would put it, "Remove yourself from your self."
ReplyDeleteI think that positive selfishness is when you help other people for that good feeling, or when you are trying to better yourself (and not to the detriment of others). Positive selfishness can be anything that leaves everyone with benevolent feelings, ha ha.
And I agree with Mason Riley, negative selfishness is having more regard for yourself than others (which is very easy to slide into).
DQ: When is it beneficial to be negatively selfish?
FQ: What are the three components of Multiculturalism as defined by Anne Phillips?
Answer: 1) People's cultural identity matters to them: so ignoring or disparaging cultural identity is a harm. 2) In a diverse culture, it's not appropriate to expect everyone to adopt the values, practices, and traditions of the majority. 3) It's likely that laws and institutions will reflect the values and practices of the dominant group; so this needs to be justified or undone.
(I didn't realize how long that answer was going to be...)
- Jake Goza (H01)
I enjoyed floating in y’alls group while I was munching on my clementines!
ReplyDeleteAnd I completely agree with Logan (whattt? Haha) I really don’t think there is any real selfless act! It’s exactly like Emily mentioned in the post, even when we do something for others we still do it to get that sense of satisfaction or good deed. I don’t remember who said it (Kailey or Emily?) today, but this in my mind summed up our conversation “There is no such thing as selfless acts only selfless intentions!!” Being selfish is given a bad rep, but sometimes doing something for yourself is just as important, because you are neglecting yourself.
My 2 cents
Yusra Mohammed
H01
After reading Yusra's comment, I've changed my standpoint (the goal of philosophical conversation, ha ha)! I really like what she said about there being no selfless acts, but selfless intentions. But, I also believe it's very dangerous to say that selflessness NEVER happens or that it's impossible without any way of backing up the evidence. After all, Jesus, Mohammed, Gandhi, etc. were all pretty selfless people.
ReplyDelete-Jake Goza (H01)
I would still argue that selflessness is pretty hard to come by, even in religious figures like the ones you mentioned. Jesus, Mohammed, and Gandhi had selfless intentions, but being a prophet is still kind of selfish in my opinion. I mean, they were all leaders of a religious movement or concept that they were large parts of themselves. It would be like me deciding everyone should eat apples all the time and I was constantly giving them out to other people. Eventually the whole world may be eating apples and I would be a figurehead for this movement. And even though everyone was now healthy as all get out, I would still be recognized as a leader, and that's a selfish result. This is the point where I need to reinstate that I don't see being selfish as a negative quality. I'm pretty sure the bible tells us that God is selfish; He doesn't want us to worship false idols. He's selfish for a good reason, in my opinion, even though it is risky for any man or deity to be so sure of himself...but, He's god, so I think he knows what he's talking about. I'm sorry, I could rant forever. It's just one of my pet peeves how society treats being selfish as a negative quality. I think one more important thing to think about is that an act is somewhat defined by its result. So, if you end up looking selfish afterwards, I'd say it's not a selfless act. There can always be selfless intentions though, as quite a few have now pointed out. Also, I love/hate Michelle because she was the only one to recognize that I got this whole idea from Friends, but she beat me to it by linking it first. Oh, and thanks for the disclaimer, Emily haha.
ReplyDeleteDQ: Where do you think the origins of being selfless came from? Would you argue it is an evolutionary trait?
FQ: Should Jake have kept the twenty dollars
A: Yep. haha
Link....ah well, I'm sucking with requirements today.
Logan, so glad we had you as an honorary member last class! You always make me think about things in ways that I never have before, and I think that's what this class is all about. You brought up the question: Is being selfish bad? Selfish is defined as “devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others”. Is it wrong to be concerned with your own life? Is it wrong to put yourself before other people? I've been wrestling with these questions since last class. It's hard, because I think we are all selfish to some extent. Even the most giving and intentionally “selfless” people put themselves first sometimes. When I'm confused about something I go to the Bible. The verse that came to mind was Philippians 2:3-4. It says, “Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.” Not only to his own interests, but ALSO to the interests of others. I don't think the bible tells us to never worry about ourselves, but that we should always consider how our decisions are affecting others. Honestly, I don't know where I'm going with this.. I'm still working my way through this question because I've never thought of selfishness as not being a bad thing. Another thing you asked during our discussion is why our culture is so obsessed with helping others all the time. Another valid question that I've never taken the time to consider before. One of the reasons I like to help people is because Jesus helped people. I mean I know that's not everyone's idea behind helping others, but I feel like we are called to be like Jesus. Jesus was all about loving people. “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:12-13) Now obviously when we help people we aren't laying down our lives for them as in dying for them, but I do think that offering our time and love to other people is important and worthwhile.
ReplyDeleteFQ: Define Rationalism: The approach to philosophy that emphasizes reason rather than experiment and observation.
I was the floater for the three group day. In my original group we talked about Hobbes and his theories on goodness and selflessness. I believe that most everyone is basically selfish. Our basic instinct in all situations is to take care of number one first. Now I also believe we can train ourselves to become selfless. Or at least more selfless than before. Recently we've seen working people give up huge amounts of their salaries to taxes that are handed out to unemployed people. So I definitely think we can learn to be less selfish.
ReplyDeleteIn Group 3 we discussed different aspects of dreams and what affects them. We came to the consensus that aspects of the persons days are very likely to pop up in his or her dreams that night. We also talked about whether or not lucid dreaming is real, coming to the conclusion that it is.
In Group 4 we discussed modern discrimination. I believe that many people will automatically discount what a person has to say because that person is a certain way. Whether it be age, race, gender, political party, etc., we've all experienced this. We also discussed how much people "cry wold" about sexism and discrimination to further their own agendas, which relates directly to Hobbe's theory.
DQ: Are there any truly selfless people? If yes, who?
FQ: What reasons did Hobbes give for people being selfish?
Trevor Wiemann
H01