Up@dawn 2.0

Monday, April 14, 2014


Hi everyone!

Our walk today was very short. We didn't get a whole lot of talking done, because an odd person just entered our group and started walking with us. It was very distracting, but also pretty funny.

We discussed what Nietzsche said about God being dead, and also what William James' idea on God existing if it is good for you means to us.
Personally, I don't think I would change how I live my life at all knowing God was "up there" or not.  I would be one of the people where the question would not come up.  At least, my idea of god is definitely not Christian based. I wouldn't call myself an atheist, just not Christian.

Having said that, what works for me may not work for you, and if you find good meaning in Christianity, and it makes you a good person - I think it's great.

Actually, William James is one of my favorites, specifically because I can use a lot of his suggestions very practically.  Like, whenever I am about to eat something unhealthy, I think to myself "William James!" because I want to believe I have free will.

Now I have another helpful tip from him, if you believe something can be true you can will it to happen! He is really inspiring, I think.

Anyway, Let's all do our reading and posts! and if there is anything more you want to talk about from our discussion, you can post it here :)


  1. I was glad to read this weeks LH segment because it was about Bertrand Russell who is a philosopher that I covered in one of my #final post. Russell has become one of my personal favorite philosophers because of his edgy and brave way of thinking. I mean to guy spent time in jail because of his comments on the first world war. The things he wrote about were as deep as it gets.His idea about what is true and what is false absolutely blows my mind. The depth of his logic is much my extensive then my own, but I do like to sample his ideas whenever I get the chance. I believe he is my favorite because his ideas challenge you to question such important things.

    FQ: What was Russell's idea on religions other than Buddhism? they only caused suffering and hatred

    FQ: Finish this paradox. "The Present king of ______ is ______."
    France/ Bald

    DQ: This sentence is False.... Is it?

    1. It's a paradox, a contradicting sentence? Even though it states it's false then that is what makes it false, but it is a true statement.
      I think I just confused myself I'm literally LOL!

    2. Zachary VanDusen12:21 PM CDT

      Honestly I got so confused when reading about this. The sentence "This sentence is false" is insisting that it is false. However, it would be true that the sentence is false, so that the sentence must be true because it is implying that the sentence is false. Russel really confused me in the readings. I personally feel like it is useless to know whether the sentence is true or false.

  2. Kathryn I think I need your help on my question that I asked on our walk yesterday. Since, you don't have a Christian base believe in God. Nietzsche talked about once you accept that there is no god, you can't just cling to a Christian view of right and wrong. So, my question I had yesterday from that statement was, What id a person did fully believe, but know not sure if God is real or not can they still hold on to that Christian right and wrong views?
    I just thought maybe you could help me with that from your statement above. Not trying to critique your belief, but it's for me. I have been struggling for the past few years.

    Now for the readings.......Bertrand Russell mainly caught my attention when I read his interest in religious. I do believe religious comfort us, I asked the question over and over again. Is all this faith and belief we have just something to hold onto to get us through this life. He spoke about how it's reassuring that God exist who will punish evil people, in the after life. See I just don't get that. Why is it evil people as well as good people all can live a good life here on earth. To me if you do bad things and it angers God why don't they all get punish fully while living why wait for the afterlife? And good people suffer on earth and have to be rewarded in the afterlife for all their righteous living here why is that? That brings me to this question the bible states he rain on the just and the unjust, again why the good have to suffer like the bad and they still can get rained(punish) on for their good, while the people still does evil get the same treatments? It's doesn't seem so just to me. No one should have to wait until they are dead to be reward for their good on earth. Russell also stated that religion produce more misery than happy. I can attest to that that's why I struggle with my belief now. I told my niece that I am more sad when I listen to gospel music that R&B. She asked how and stated that it makes her feel better? The reason why is because I listen to the lyrics and I see my situation and others around me and wonder why such much suffering and pain in the world and people sing and preach how good he his.

    I was rambling my apologies. Well Boo/Hooray! I guess that was my torture and compassion.

    FQ: Who was Russell's godfather? John Stuart Mill p185

    FQ: What was the title of Ayer's first book and at what age did he write it? "Language, Truth and Logic" age 24 p191 it was published in 1936

    FQ: Ayers book was complete gibberish, meaning? Nonsense p190

    DQ: How do you really know that 2+2=4?

    I was wondering did either of these two guys know about metaphor, or was it a word at that time? I'm just saying LOL!

    I enjoyed the part about the barber It had me rolling laughing. I guess he want get shaved.

    1. A lot of times, when we grow up we are taught to do right or wrong because of the threat of what will happen in the afterlife. My view is not based off this, but based off the assumption that everyone here is in the same situation. My sense of right or wrong stems from wanting to help make this life better for everyone, myself and all living things, while we are here. There is too much suffering in this world to contribute to it more, and I have no idea what comes after this. If what you do does not cause suffering, I think it can't be called wrong, but we need to treat ourselves with respect too.
      I have talked to a lot of people who tried to tell me a non christian is automatically immoral, because they have no reason to treat others kindly. I think it is reason enough if you respect everyone. I would also point out that the people who treat others unkindly in this world must be suffering in some way. If you treat people unkindly, you will end up empty and alone! Sooner or later, their unkind acts will catch up to them - I think while they are still here and alive.

    2. I have similar ways like you. I always want the best for others and believe we all should have a great life. So many of us do struggle with the same situation and I always wish we all had a better life.
      I don't think that a person who is not a Christian is an immoral. We are all entitled to our beliefs and it doesn't make anyone better than the next person. I see people who are not right and it seem as if they have a joyous life with no suffering for their wrong to others, but then I'm on the outside looking in and no matter how close I am to that person I probably never really see the truth if they are suffering any consequences to their action.

    3. Good exchange, Kathryn & Shante!

      Good people come in every variety of belief and disbelief, and plenty of bad people profess belief - sometimes for fear of the consequences of disbelief, or just because those particular beliefs were imposed in childhood. But as Russell said, externally imposed ideas are really worthless.

      One other thing: we shouldn't define "good" in terms of any specific faith tradition. Humane values of decency, compassion, kindness, love etc. preceded those traditions and do not depend on them. All it takes for goodness to prevail in the world is for good people to act naturally, in accord with their nature.

  3. Hugh Mellor on Frank Ramsey on Truth

    Ramsey focus on truth and came up with a theory of what truth is. Whether you like it or not which is now the Redundancy Theory. He believe that if you say it then it means just that.
    Mellor talk about how Ramsey died at an early age of 26 of jaundice and he was misdiagnosed. The operation for one thing and having hepatitis killed him. Well if it had of been in today's time it would be called a law suit.

    FQ: T/F If you act on your beliefs when they are true you get what you ant to get. True p218 PB

    FQ: Was Ramsey an atheist? Yes p221 PB

    DQ: If you believe it's true does it make it true?

  4. Zachary VanDusen12:16 PM CDT

    FQ: In the book "Marriage and Morals", what christian views were being questioned? And who wrote it? Views on the importance of being faithful to your partner in marriage; Bertrand Russe

    FQ: According to Bertrand Russel, " Either man will abolish ___, or ___ will abolish man". war; war

    FQ: There was no chance of God stepping in to save humanity was belief by which philosopher? Bertand Russell

    FQ: Russel believed that people were drawn to religion because they were ______. Afraid of dying.

    FQ: Russel felt that religion always produced more _____ than happiness. misery

    FQ: Russel was, however, someone who felt that the only different religion was Buddhism because nearly all other religions have had histories of war, individual suffering and hatred.

    FQ: Who was Bertrand Russel's non-religious grandfather? John Stuart Mill

    FQ: What made Russel reject God? Mill's autobiography in 1873

    FQ: What is logic? a subject on the border of philosophy and mathematics that study reasonings.

    FQ: Russel felt that ordinary language needed to be ________ to bring out its underlying ________ shape. analysed; logical

    FQ: AJ Ayer and Bertrand Russel were both part of the _____ turn. linguistic

    FQ: Who wrote the book " Language, Truth and Logic"? AJ Ayer

    FQ: To verify if something was meaningful or not which two questions should you ask yourself, in the eyes of Ayer? And what was this known as? Is it true by definition? And is it empirically verifiable? ; Verification Principle

    FQ: What was Ayers theory of ethics known as? emotivism

    FQ: According to the Verification Principle, saying 'God exists' is ______. meaningless

    FQ: Ayers was an ______, which was someone who felt the talk of God existing or not was nonsense. igtheist

    DQ: How do you feel about Russel's idea that people believe in religion simply because they are afraid to die?

  5. I will be a little late for class today

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