Today our group talked about fate vs. logos and our views on both. We all had different opinions on what fate meant in relation to logos. Even though we all had different views, we did come to the mutual agreement that there is never a way for life to be completely planned out step by step. Chris mentioned a book he read about religion and about how different religions have different beliefs on which is the "right" one. We all started to wonder on how do we know which religion will actually get you to heaven? This is when Chris explained to us that it's like a map..there are all kinds of paths to take that are leading various directions but somewhere on that map, there is a certain point that everyone will cross eventually. Therefore, we all have the opportunity to choose the "correct" religion at some point.
Fact: In place of whims and passions of the gods and the uncertainties of fate, there had to be _____.
Answer: logos.
Discussion: Is it right to say that any one religion is the "right" one? What about people who never leave their particular tribe in the middle of Africa and have never heard of any other religion? Are they still destined to hell? Is it their FATE to go to hell because they had no opportunity to learn other religious views?
I don't think it's right to say that any specific religion is the correct one to believe in. Also, it isn't logical to say that because someone isn't a certain religion they are going to hell. If someone has never left their tribe in Africa and they don't know any better, then it would be completely unfair for them to be punished for that.
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Fact: What are the "Four Noble Truths" of Buddhism?
1) Life is suffering
2) Suffering arises from selfish craving
3) Selfish craving can be eliminated.
4) One can eleminate selfish craving by following the right way.
Discussion: While the Jains take as their primary principle "Do no harm," and they practice respect for all of life... Is it silly that they even take enough care to not crush insects on the ground with their feet, and pay attention to insects in the air so they are careful not to inhale them?
No one person can say for certain which religion if any is the correct one. Therefor anyone that chooses a religion has no clue if there beliefs are correct. In most religions there is a god if not several gods. Logically gods can not be proven however, logically it is impossible for humanity to just appear. Therefor, I do believe there is a god. I also wonder if maybe there is an almighty god that most religions worship and humans are just to blind to see that it is in fact the same god and humans have just over time just changed the religious activities to fit the need or want of the geographical area.
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FACT: what is mysticism?
Discussion: In Buddhism and Jainism they speak of enlightenment. How does one know when they have reach this stage? What are the signs of a person in the enlightened state?
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ReplyDeleteWe really only know a few things about life with absolute certainty. Among these are the facts that we are alive, that we weren't always alive, and that we will eventually cease to be alive. The rest about our existence is fairly open to interpretation. Whether we consider that we our bound to fate, or that there is merit in a logical approach to reality, we will all die. In a way, I think that even if our fates are pre-determined by a God... that we would be doing Him (or Her) (or It) a disservice if we didn't do our best to figure out the world in a logical perspective with the limited time we all have to live. Because the reality of it all is that we will never really know for sure in our lifetime, and isn't asking question's more entertaining than being told what to believe?
ReplyDeleteFact: In what century did the Buddha appear?
.............6th
Discussion: Doesn't the "want" to reach Nirvana interfere with the path to reach Nirvana (eliminating selfish wants)?
I found this story and, though it is Taoist in origin, I thought it might be appropriate for the logos discussion as well:
ReplyDeleteThere is a very famous Taoist story. The story is about
an old Taoist farmer whose horse ran away:
...That evening the neighbors gathered to commiserate with him since this was such bad luck.
He said, "Perhaps."
The next day the horse returned, but brought with it six wild horses, and the neighbors came exclaiming at the good fortune.
He said, "Perhaps."
And then the following day, his son tried to saddle and ride one of the wild horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. Again the neighbors came to offer their sympathy for the misfortune.
He said, "Perhaps."
The day after that, conscription officers came to the village to seize young men for the army, but because of the broken leg the farmer's son was rejected. When the neighbors came in to say how fortunate everything had turned out,
he said, "Perhaps."
This is the attitude of a man who understands what is accidental and what is essential. The accidental is always 'maybe'; it is a 'perhaps'. You cannot be certain about it, you need not be certain about it. People who become certain about the accidental are going to be frustrated sooner or later; their certainty is going to create much frustration for them. Their certainty will create expectations, and they cannot be fulfilled – because the universe is not there to fulfill your expectations. It has its own destiny. It is moving towards its own goal (logos?). It does not
care about your private goals.
Factual Question: Does Buddhism believe in 'atman', the self?
-No
Discussion: How are Buddhist views of rebirth and karma similar to Christian views of the afterlife?
I personally do not believe that any one religion has it right. If, for the sake of argument, a religious text is actually taken from the words of a god, the writings would still only relate to God's plan by human's interpretation of that plan. It seems ridiculously egotistical that a human can claim to know and understand the agenda of an all knowing being that created all existence (far beyond what we can observe)well enough to personally damn his neighbor to hell for not sharing the same views. I hope that if I am wrong, and there is in fact a god watching over us all that he would be wise enough to accept all benevolent souls into his kingdom; not just the ones who read his book.
ReplyDeleteFact: What do Buddhists call the it when someone achieves enlightenment and the end of misery?
Answer: Nirvana
Discussion:Buddhists believe that Nirvana is achieved in part by freeing oneself of the illusion that they hold a special place in the world. This is thought to be possible through deep, logical evaluation of ourselves. In a purely logical sense, is the individual worth regarding as not special?
Interesting question, Austin. Other than a documentary and what was said in aPfW, I don't know much about Buddhism, so I'm not going to suggest this issue isn't somehow addressed in Buddhist teachings, but it's hard for me to see anyone completely eliminating "selfish wants"... It sounds like a Catch 22 to me. Siddhartha, before Buddhism, basically endured torture for years in trying to find "Nirvana"... So it's hard to say he didn't 'want' to find it. I will have to double-check, but I seem to recall him abandoning his family, including his newborn child, to search for peace and the meaning of life. Some may consider that 'selfish'.
ReplyDeleteFactual Question: Who is usually said to be the first Greek philosopher?
Thales (624-546)
Discussion Question: If fate exists and everything is pre-determined, how could there be a meaning to life at all?