Group 5 discussed the following:
There is no question that the world is filled with an appalling amount of evil and suffering. We are impacted by this reality every day on all levels: emotional, intellectual and practical. As such, it is not surprising that people have a difficult time reconciling this harsh reality with the idea of an all good, all powerful God.
- God exists
- God is all good
- God is all powerful
- Evil exists (Kreeft and Tacelli 1994: 129).
If we affirm any three of these propositions, it seems we must reject the fourth. For example, if we accept that God exists, is all good and that evil exists, we must reject the idea that God is all powerful, otherwise he would put a stop to evil. Or, if God exists and is all powerful and yet evil also exists, then God must not be all good, because he wills or allows evil to exist.
In the philosophy of religion, the problem of evil is the question of how to explain evil if there exists a deity that is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient (seetheism).[1][2] Some philosophers have claimed that the existences of such a god and of evil are logically incompatible or unlikely. Attempts to resolve the question under these contexts have historically been one of the prime concerns of theodicy.
Some responses include the arguments that true free will cannot exist without the possibility of evil, that humans cannot understand God, that suffering is necessary for spiritual growth or evil is the consequence of a fallen world. Others contend that God is not omnibenevolent.
One example among many of a formulation of the problem of evil is often attributed to Epicurus[9] and may be schematized as follows:
- If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.
- There is evil in the world.
- Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist.
Bad things sometimes happen. Whether they are taken to flow from the operation of the world ("natural evil"), to result from deliberate human cruelty ("moral evil"), or simply to correlate poorly with what seems to be deserved ("non-karmic evil"), such events give rise to basic questions about whether or not life is fair.
The presence of evil in the world poses a special difficulty for traditional theists, as both Epicurus and Hume pointed out. Since an omniscient god must be aware of evil, an omnipotent god could prevent evil, and a benevolent god would not tolerate evil, it should follow that there is no evil. Yet there is evil, from which atheists conclude that there is no omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent god. The most common theistic defense against the problem, propounded (in different forms) by both Augustine and Leibniz, is to deny the reality of evil by claiming that apparent cases of evil are merely parts of a larger whole that embodies greater good. More recently, some have questioned whether the traditional notions of omnipotence and omniscience are coherent.
Do we sin because we are evil, or are we evil because we sin? If you read the story of Eve in the Garden of Eden, from the book of Genesis, it appears that humans were created without sin but with free will. If this is the case- that Eve had no sin, then why did she disobey God and eat the fruit? Did she eat because she was created as a sinner or did she become a sinner because she disobeyed God? If she had not sinned, would she have lived forever? Was death created because of her sin or was it inevitable for all humans? If God is all-knowing as scripture indicates, why would he create humans and then set them up for failure? Is it possible that God created the framework of the world and then instituted "natural laws" and then allowed man to decide how he would live?
ReplyDeleteQuestions for next session:
Delete1. Factual- What was central to Plato's philosophy? (ANSWER- THEORY OF FORMS)
2. Discussion- What is more important....the body or the soul? Or are they independently important?
So, does that mean that God created something less than perfect?
ReplyDeleteSean,
ReplyDeleteGood post, I appreciate your thoroughness.
What about all the innocent victims of evil who never have the chance to live, learn, and receive grace before they're mowed down?
Dave's talking about Deism, the view of people like Jefferson and Franklin. God creates the laws, and lets them unfold. Deists tend not to talk about omniscience and omnipotence, but if the Deist God has personality and self-consciousness He'd have to know that the laws will lead to Hitler and the KKK (etc.) - so why, we might wonder, didn't he adjust the laws?
And how can the laws of physics and the universe trump the will of the creator of the universe and its laws?
To all of you who are still wrestling with this problem, I hope you'll take a close look at Bart Ehrman's book on the subject, linked at my post here: http://delightsprings.blogspot.com/2012/01/we-really-should-wrap-up-whole-evil.html
Dr. O,
DeleteI am not necessarily a Diest but I am kind of leaning that way. I post these type posts to invoke thought and conversation.
There is always going to be the question why? If there is a God why did he let my friend get leukemia at the age of 19? If there is a God why did he let my brother die in his sleep at the age of 30? Then you have the people that tell you, "oh God needed your friend and brother, that's why he took them". really? Like this is comforting and what I want to hear. If God made us and what is in us , like our emotions, then why would he take someone we love and make us grieve? Someone may have the answer but liked we talked about in our group it's a never ending circle because you will always come back to the original question.
ReplyDeleteFactual for Plato: Who was the greatest writer in Western Philosophy? (Plato)
Discussion for Plato: The Greeks "believed in" the soul only to a minimal extent. They admitted you needed to breathe to animate the body, and that breath departed the body with death. But the soul needed the body just as much as the body needed the soul. Without the soul, the body was dead, but without the body, the soul was just a pathetic shadow with no meaning and no value. My question is what is your opinion on a soul? Do you believe everyone has a soul?
also why would someone with a higher power get to decide what he want's to be fit. I know bad things happen because it's a part of life. Just like I know it's not fair that people have to die and I am at a understanding that I know it's the cycle of life and everyone is going to die. So what does it mean when someone young dies of natural causes(meaning not of abusing the body) and God doesn't step in? Why would he not see it fit that this person still deserves to live? How can someone make so many highly important decisions?
ReplyDeleteAlso, what about the old adage that power breeds corruption? If that's true then what does absolute power breed?
ReplyDelete