Our factual question is:
"Apirkoros" is a generic term used by Modern Jews to refer to what?
The answer is:
Atheists.
Our discussion question is quite simple but pretty much encompasses most religious debates:
Do you need proof to believe?
Our topic was Jesus, which is why our discussion question is that. Did Jesus as a philosopher have doubt, and if so, did he need proof to get past it? Did people who encountered Jesus have doubt or did they need proof? And in this current day of age, do people have doubt and if so, how do they get proof/get over that nagging feeling of doubt?
My opinion about needing proof to believe leans very much so to the yes side of things. The thing that surprised me the most about the reading in Doubt was that people questioned Jesus, and Jesus even questioned God. The way the people I've encountered who are Christians seem to have zero doubt in their faith (I guess doubting it though would make it harder to pitch). I don't think I could get on board the Christian religious train without having proof to my doubts. Maybe if I could have seen Jesus turn water into wine, I would be more convinced. However, I just hear the miraculous account. Why does religion inspire so much belief but other accounts of life have to be questioned and prodded and considered unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteI know this sounds awful, and I mean no offense, but to me Jesus and Santa are similar. I think to illustrate my point best, you should check out the first chapter of Augusten Burrough's memoir "You Better Not Cry." That's all I'm going to say on the matter on this forum because it's quite a touchy subject.
From my understanding, we need to post our questions about our next topic BEFORE class on in the comments so here's my upcoming questions to Augustine:
FACTUAL:
The only thing keeping Augustine from embracing Epicurean happiness was?
-The belief in life and death and that one is rewarded or punished there
DISCUSSION:
-If you follow all the morals and principles attached to Christianity, does it make you a Christian or must you have belief?
-D you have pressures and influences that commend or reprimand your faith (like Augustine's mother), and how do you deal with it?
Ugh! I am going to make this short because I had quite a lengthy(and beautifully written:) response to this post but clicked off and lost it!
ReplyDeleteSo a brief synapsis of what I said(or meant to say):
1) What is the difference between Religious belief and unproven Scientific Theory belief; i.e., the Theory of Evolution, Black Holes, The Big Bang? Both cases involve belief in the absence of proof, both cases provide evidence (whether scientific or biblical) both cases are widely believed by "the Masses".
2) Also that attitude that Christians have where they have zero doubt in their Religion is called faith: belief without proof. Which can be found in the scientific community, too. Approach a Biologist with doubts of Evolution and I'm sure you'll get the same reaction you would from an Evangelical pastor.
3)Comparing Jesus and Santa is wayyyy off. Would you compare Buddha to Santa? Ghandi? Sure St. Nick was a living man who brought good to the lives of many and his legacy lives on today, but his legacy does not inspire a couple of millennia of human beings to greater moral conduct or Religious Salvation. Santa did not suffer persecution for his good works, as Jesus, and even Ghandi, did. He did not preach morally righteous proverbs, he did not inspire a new Religion. (I could go on about how wonderful Jesus is, but I would be talking about evidence within the Bible, which probably wouldn't affect you. No offense, just saying, it is hard to use Believer's evidence with a nonbeliever).
But anyhoo.... Belief in Jesus as divinity or not, you must admit that He has more power, influence, and impact of greater caliber than Santa.
4) We may not encounter proof of the miraculous or even scientific in our lifetime, but we MUST believe in something.
FACTUAL:
ReplyDeleteWhat was the cardinal sin that Augustine had the most trouble with suppressing his urges to commit?
-lust
DISCUSSION:
In the text, it states' "In an odd twist, Augustine praised doubt as the road to knowing anything, as long as it does not question God." My question is, why should God be an exception? What makes this belief exempt from doubt?
It seems as if there was some misinterpretation in what I've previously posted, most particularly by Kristin. In case anyone else as well as she is confused, I would like to clarify. However, please note this is directed at Kristin's comments since her confusion is outright. Here is my clarification:
ReplyDelete-I think it's interesting that if one doesn't believe in Christianity, they are immediately confounded to believe in some sort of scientific approach to the world. I looked over what I had previously written and I never mentioned anything about science, so I was kind of confused about why you were mentioning these scientific concepts. Anyway, that's irrelevant because this isn't (at least to me) a debate over our own personal beliefs (once again, not to me, I can't really say if you are trying to debate or not…) and I would rather not mention what my personal beliefs are.
-I would like to clarify: it's not an attitude to say that Christians have zero doubt in their religion. It was a notion that I mentioned because as I clearly stated, I have never met a Christian who didn't have zero doubt. I said this because I think its interesting that in what Jennifer Michael Hecht says in her book, townspeople and even Jesus had doubt and they were there seeing the beginning something amazing happen. Don't you think it's an interesting transformation that those who were there were doubters and yet the majority of Christians (that I have encountered, which now I can add you to that account) have utter faith? I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I just wonder what happened from then and now.
-I would like to mention something before I explain what I meant by my previous post. I found the way you approached this specific point as an attack (I can't say if you meant it as an attack, but nevertheless, that is how it seemed). Personally, if you tried to mention God's word to me in the same manner as this point, I wouldn't be able to listen wholeheartedly because I've already been what feels like judged by someone who is trying to promote a loving, nonjudgmental faith. Now, what I meant by saying Jesus and Santa being similar would be completely explained to you if you have read the chapter I mentioned in the book I mentioned as well. The point brought up by me isn't even a philosophical point, but an recommendation of outside reading so one could see the confusion between Jesus and Santa. Once again, I wouldn't go further into what the chapter mentions because 1) I'd spoil it for those who choose to read it and 2) it's a a complication summary if I tried to word it. It's better to just read it and be amused rather than me try to explain. I never said how I think Jesus and Santa were similar, so there is no basis of attacking what I previously said. So in retrospect, you are "wayyyy off" by assuming I meant something malicious. I never want to offend someone involved in any faith or belief. I respect your beliefs, but I do not respect the way in which you approached me.
First off belief in faith is different from accepting a scientific theory is true in the absence of a better one. I would also like to point out the killing that has been done in the name of religion, such as in the spanish inquisition. that is not to say the science has not made terrible machines of war but my point is both sides have there flaws and have been used to kill and make money.
ReplyDeleteDevin Sharpe