Factual Question:
What is the claim that, from a given cause, the effect necessarily follows?
Answer: Determinism
Discussion Question(s):
Is it possible to see everything as it truly is with a completely open mind?
-and-
Does everything happen for a reason? Is this reason good?
I don't think it is ever possible for any one person to see the world for what it truly is. This is not only because one person cannot possibly see the ENTIRE world in one lifetime, but also because one person has just their own thoughts. While we can become open minded and learn to tolerate and accept most of our surroundings with an unbiased view, we will never free ourselves completely from judging or having an opinion about the world and the people in it. It's part of humanity. We have thoughts. That's that.
I do not think that everything happens for a reason and that there is something in the distant future that will make itself clear whenever it comes about. However, I do believe that everything we have done leads us to exactly where we are now. Every choice I have made put me right here, typing this right now. This is not God's Plan. This is not some mythical causality that leads to some enlightenment. It's just time. One second effects the next and so on; a butterfly effect. I don't think there's reason to it...and I certainly don't think that it would be a good one. (I.e. unnecessary suffering)
What do you guys think?
(And now for some fun: Is it possible for there to be predestination (God's Plan) as well as free will as the Bible suggests?)
(My short answer: No. My long answer: It is paradoxical to assume that God knows all about our past, present, and future, yet still gives us a choice whether or not to believe in him. How is this choice if he knew, before we were born, what our choice would be? And how does that make God look? It can only be one of the two. And if one exists without the other, it makes God a lot different. Either he's a douche that didn't actually give us free well, knowing well where we are destined to go before we even make the "choice" -OR- he has no idea about the future, and thus isn't omnipotent. Kind of a bleak conclusion u_u)
(Next week is Hegel! We're up to page 103 now...sheesh)
Is it possible to see everything with a completely open mind: No. There are some aspects of reality we just don't want to accept.
ReplyDeleteDoes everything happen for a reason?: I'm sure everything does happen for a reason. We act out of a thought process, even though the thought process may be unintelligent and harmful, it's still thought, and there was a reason behind the actions. Is the reason good?: I doubt it. Whether it's "tough love" or just a purely demented enjoyment God gets out of our suffering, there are too many aspects of human life which are far too negative for God to have a consistently good reason for our existence.
Do predestination and free will exist together in the bible.
ReplyDeleteNo, not true free will. Maybe free will to choice what color shirt you wear today, but definitely not on anything that matters, like if you will be a good person or a bad person. If you will kill, or help people in your life. From my limited perception of the world, I think that it's ridiculous to suggest that we will be rewarded, or punished by god for doing right or wrong, when we have no choice in the matter to begin with. And even more ridiculous to make this suggestion from a few vague bible scriptures that NEVER flat out say, "Your soul is already saved or damned before you are born".
Is it possible to see everything with a completely open mind?
I don't think you can alone see things purely objective, however I do believe that someone can bring you to understand something objectively. For example, if I am looking at the sky everyday, I may not see a constellation, but if someone points it out to me, I will forever be able to notice it from that point on. .
Does everything happen for a reason
I believe that everything does happen for a reason, but I think that reasons are constantly changing, by the decisions that the entire world as a whole is making.
I agree that free will and God's omnipotence are a paradox. That being said, I suspect that Kat doesn't fully understand the words meaning.
ReplyDeleteIt is tough to understand something that we have no knowledge of, like Omniscience, but we can attempt to use feeble metaphors. consider a home video of yourself trying to decide if you want to shake your grandfathers hand at a family gathering. You know the choice that you made. But you still made it yourself however many years ago. Knowing doesn't change that. It requires a somewhat different view of time
Matthew Williams
I believe we can have an open mind but i do believe in god and that he has a plan in mind for all of us and gave us free will to choose him and his path he gave us this free will because he wanted to see what we would do with it if we would choose to follow him... Maybe he doesnt have a set plan because what would be the point in free will where we can choose our own path but i do belive everything happens for a reason. that god sometimes sets things in motion to let us know if the path we are on is the smartest one. sometimes he takes us down a certain road to let us know its not the right one.
ReplyDeleteMatthew -- I know exactly what free will and omnipotence entail. I also know that an understanding of time in a different sense than human's can help the argument for God and his "great Plan". However, this still doesn't touch on the fact that we DO NOT have free will, even in your cutesy metaphor.
ReplyDeleteGod would have known, regardless of time, that we, say, chose not to believe in him. He also knew this when HE MADE THAT PERSON. Therefore, he knew that you would BURN IN HELL before you made your "choice". Does that not concern you? Even if you consider it your choice and free will, God still KNOWS what you chose before you did it. That's still paradoxical and that still eliminates free will. One cannot exist with the other. That was my point.
Even if God sees all things that occur in a massive time line all at once, it still gets rid of even a notion of free will. Because he KNOWS what you chose before he made you, after you die, during your life, etc.
Your metaphor falls short of the magnificence of the concept.
Alyssa -- And sometimes he kills innocent children. That's not a path. That's not a plan. Unless you're saying it is..in which case, I don't like God. He sounds mean.