Up@dawn 2.0

Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Philosophize Me Cap'n (01)

This week our group focused on Mysticism and Zen Buddhism. As we split up into our discussion groups and opened up the discussion, Dr. Oliver sat down and philosophized with us for a bit. We discussed how mysticism is part of nearly every religion, but it is not a religion itself. We spoke of specific real-life examples of mystic happenings. One thing that befuddled us was the fact that the Sufis, those of the mystical Islam traditions, practiced stages of self-perfection in total absorption of their God. It was said that those who practiced these mystical traditions (Sufis) were a very elite group of people chosen by God. As we spoke about this, we wondered, how do these people know who is part of the select few? There is no way really to justify who is true and who is a phony. Perhaps that is the point of mysticism though... it is sort of a mystery. Dr. Oliver mentioned how Buddha received a lot of his ideas under a tree, through mystic happenstances. This brought back the discussion of whether or not one believes in fate. For the very faithful of people, it is probably much more easy to believe that all the mystics are genuine.
(This also reminded me of the divine right of the king in monarchies. There is no real proof of their "divine right". The only proof given is their word, which I think makes it sort of mystical).

We also focused in on the Zen Buddhists and how they did not believe in a "self" at the core of any being or of the universe even. They simply believed that our universe, including everything is it, is just the overlapping and intermingling of all things with each other. When one detaches themselves from conceptualizations and categorizations, could it be possible to really get rid of their ego, because it is a concept in a sense? We also brought up the issue of whether or not hunger would be considered a selfish motive or a concept. Hunger itself seems to be a concept, and it has selfish drives because it acts as a way to keep yourSELF alive... does this mean that is goes against the Zen Buddhist way? That I don't think we will ever quite figure out.

  • Factual Questions:

What does Kabbalah translate to?
A. A grilled treat on a stick said to make one more philosophical
B. A new way of thinking
C. A tradition
D. The Mongolian Bible

What is gnosis, as it refers to Islamic mysticism?
The elimination of the ego; an experience of pure ecstacy where the believer becomes one with God

  • Discussion Question:
Would you consider the Buddhist goal of getting rid of one's ego a concept? How would that butt heads with Zen Buddhism if one were to consider it as such?
Does being a Zen Buddhist relate to being a Stoic? How or how not?
Is hunger considered a concept???

4 comments:

  1. I think Buddhism itself its conceptual, and therefore, to get of one's ego, one has to follow the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path, which is basically following a concept. I think it clashes with the idea of Zen because to achieve Zen, you have to let go of concepts, which I inherently implied was Buddhism. But hey, what religion isn't conflicting?

    I don't think being a Zen Buddhism related to being Stoic because Stoics, basically, didn't believe in anything. I think Zen Buddhism still have grains of faith and are trying to achieve such faith by letting go. I think there is a difference between saying "I don't believe in anything, not even not believing" and "I have to let go of concepts to reach a higher enlightenment."

    I think hunger is a concept because a concept is: an abstract idea; a general notion or a plan or intention (Google dictionary). Therefore, I think hunger is a general notion of how one is feeling and arguably, could be an intention (anorexics to those who fast to achieve enlightenment like our dear Buddha).

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  2. "Stoics, basically, didn't believe in anything"-

    Don't confuse Stoics with Skeptics. Stoics had/have no particular problem with beliefs per se, just with ineffectual or counterproductive actions based on errant beliefs and emotions.

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  3. I actually think stoics and Zen Buddhists have some commonalities. "Reflection" on "contemplation" seem to be two shared aspects of both "religions" (I'm not sure if I'd refer to these two as religions. I'd consider them to be ways of thinking). Stoics sought to reach an inner calm/peace of mind to help them become free of suffering. Zen Buddhist shared this goal of attempted to reach this higher state of mind. The main difference between the two, that I see, is there means of coming to this "enlightened" state. Zen Buddhists practice methods of meditation, while stoics use logic and active rationalization.

    What I'd like to learn more about would be to compare the different states of Zen in different religions. How does an enlightened Christian compare to an enlightened Buddhist?

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  4. Oh no, I did get them confused. Here's my new thought:
    I believe Stoics and Zen Buddhists are similar because both try to deal with the problems of the ego. However, Stoics try to eliminate this egoism by using knowledge and logic. I feel as if Zen Buddhists are different because they try eliminate ego through ridding themselves of concepts (and suffering) which would conflict with the conceptual thinking of most logic. Furthermore, Buddhists could be considered more compassionate than Stoics. Interestingly enough, I found this quote from a blog called "The Humanist Contemplative": "there is a similarity in the stoic notion of logos and the Buddhist notion of Buddha nature. this is the idea that our deepest personality in stoicism is, in fact, the Logos - we go through the personal, to the cosmic or universal. we realize our identity with the world soul, we realize how our mind connects to all minds, to the one Mind." As well as this point, "Both disciplines outline a path (a metaphor), which includes duties towards others, especially compassion in the case of Buddhism and it is up to you, your responsibility to follow that path."

    Based on my own (corrected) thoughts and research, I do believe ultimately Stoics and Buddhists are similar.

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